Intimacy- would you ever pay for it?

Cowboys and angels- paying for intimacy

At HQ we look at female dating and love issues from a slightly different perspective. So we’re going to break the mould, break some rules and have some really interesting discussions. Now not to get you too excited, but I do have a very interesting guest today with a very unusual proposition for you. I’m going to phrase it like that. His name is Garren James and he is the founder of Cowboys 4 Angels. If I’m going to read this correctly, is an elite male companion service just for women? So welcome to the podcast, Garren.

 

 

The interview

Hayley

I like to look at love and dating from a female empowerment, feminist perspective. So your proposition, which is I think a real flip script or script reflector is really interesting to me. You’re kind of taking something we dissociate maybe with how men approach love and dating and you’re creating a female orientated solution for it. I’d love it if you could enlighten me and my listeners to exactly what you’re doing.

Garren

Well, I started this company about eight years ago. I learned the business from an ex girlfriend who had an agency women for men. And one day she looked at me and she said, you know, why don’t you start something for women. And I went online and did a lot of research. I couldn’t find anyone that was really doing that. There was a lot of sort of women for men on the internet, and there was a lot of men for men. But there was nothing that was strictly men for women. And I thought it was strange.

Hayley

Stop there for a second. So this is already interesting. […] Why do you think, and I know there’s like an obvious answer to this, but just so we’re getting into the discussion, why do you think there was there was all these options or services out there for men, but none for women?

Garren

I don’t know if this is the real reason, but it just seemed like it was because women weren’t allowed to do it. It seemed like even if they were allowed to do it, these were men that would see women but they also see men. And I don’t think that was very appealing to a woman to maybe hire a guy that was with a guy the night before. So I think it was partly because there wasn’t many options.

 

 

Intimacy as a service

Hayley

[…] I think that the fact that the people found it so difficult to accept that there was a business for what you’re providing is a really interesting insight into that. I also want to get just for so that because I’m obviously looking at your website, and I see like kind of sexy guys. For the women that are just listening, can you describe what cowboys 4 angels, what it kind of does and what services it offers and what needs it fulfills.

Garren

I’ve had over 15,000 employment requests and we only represent right now 90 men. I’m very strict with the men that we hire and kind of the person that they are. I’ve had so many requests- I’m gonna be blunt. Of course you have to be like tall, handsome, good looking. But I mean, I could have, 1000 tall, handsome good looking guys on the site. But I’m very picky with the guys that are represented. If they have an extremely large ego they’re out. If they’re not extremely personable, then they’re out. Or if they’re not intelligent, college-educated guys, I don’t hire them.

Hayley

That’s interesting. So what do you find when women are booking to spend time with these male companions beyond the the maybe tall darkened hands everything out the brief is for looks. What qualities do you find a woman requests? Is there something about a man’s personality? Does that mean that they gravitate towards you to choose him?

Garren

A lot of times, women will call and they’ll just start talking. And depending on my sense of their personality, I’ll help them pick a guy that’s better for them. If they are a type A personality, and tell me they like a certain guy on the site, I might try to steer them towards somebody that would more fit their personality.

[…]Sometimes you have these people out there that are good looking. And that’s all that they have known and that’s all that they sort of act. So, you know, their idea is that women worship them. And they’re the best and this and that. Right away, I’ll know that they’re not going to be good at this job because this job isn’t about people worshipping you. It’s about you worshipping the client, and going out of your way to make her feel special. […]

Hayley

Is there a […] typical profile of the kind of women that […]work with you? And, you know, I offer them kind of, I guess an alternative to something like the rules, which I find to be extremely restrictive and just generally unfun. And it takes quite a lot though for women to say okay, I’m gonna be a member of Haley’s online community and the club I’m going to learn skills about how to come better at my date about how to approach guys. About how to communicate clearly what I want to not feel shame around my sexuality or shame that I mainly want commitment, and I’m getting really proactive about it.[…]

Garren

You know, we’ve had such a such a large range. It’s funny that you’re saying, you coach women, I’ve had a lot of calls that start with my therapist told me I should I should do something like this. So, you know, we have had so many different kind of women call the service and we have such a wide, wide range of why they’re doing it.

Hayley

Can you tell me what are some of the why’s are?

Garren

There’s so many different ranges. There’s the woman that will call me and just say, I’m from LA. I’m going to New York. I don’t know the city. I’d like to hire somebody for like a four-hour appointment for dinner and just to walk around dance or something like that. You have the very successful women that are too busy to date. And then you have a lot of different special needs kind of clients. When I say special needs, I mean like a woman who’s been through a traumatic experience. She’s afraid to date again. And she calls to sort of ease her back into the dating world.[…]

Hayley

I think that’s so interesting you say that. I find a big trend with women that I work with is they’ve usually that maybe they’ve had a really rough breakup or a bas dating experience. Because of that, they go into a kind of a hibernation. [..] I find that women, when they get in the hibernation zone, they don’t really get approached or they don’t meet anyone and therefore believe that there’s nobody out there. And it’s because some part of them is shut off to the opportunity of meeting someone because intimacy is starting to feel really scary and threatening to them.

So to me, it makes a lot of sense why women might use a service like this as a kind of a gateway to get through that. Also, I might be being a bit rude pushing the boundaries here. But when it comes to this, is this a sexual service or is it companionship or is it kind of the woman set the tone or the dynamic set between the cowboy and the woman who hires them?

Garren

We are in the United States, so it’s a crime to guarantee some sort of sexual service. So that’s not something that that we can guarantee to sell anybody. That’s not our focus. What we’re trying to sell here is, is intimacy and a beautiful evening with a gentleman. That’s what our goal is, is just to make somebody feel special. 

Hayley

Do you think that there’s been increased demand for this due to less intimacy available generally, because people are meeting more people through really inhuman, inhumane, but less personable ways? […]

Garren

Well, you know, I think in general with women, women are more used to using services than men as far as going to the spa and getting their nails hair, mani/padi. In general, I think women are more used to using services. And also I think what is changing in our society is is the the level of power, which equates to money with women too.

Making a Cowboy

Hayley

Women are looking for someone to be more tempted. Now, do you do any for the, for the guys that work with you, the Cowboys? Do you do any training? Or is there a specific thing they have to follow?

Garren

Yes, the interview process is quite extensive. If I like one of the guys, we do a short phone call just so I can get a quick sense of his personality. Then we’ll do an interview via Skype, receive the rules of the agency and have another follow-up. We have sort of like testers with someone who’ve been with the agency a long time. They’ll go out on an appointment with one of them, get some more feedback, and then every date that they have, I do a follow up with the client.

So I would give him that feedback just to keep him up to date on the perception of what’s going on on his dates. It’s an everyday kind of learning for them. I don’t think they could even be taught how to do this job. It has to do so much with personality and personality you can’t teach. It goes back to finding those people that are just extremely personable. You can meet people on the street and they can say hello to you and you feel like you’ve known them forever. That’s the kind of men that we look for. And then all the other little things can be taught.

Hayley

I find this super interesting.[…] I think that there’s going to be loads of areas, there’s going to be a trend whether it’s like online dating apps or services around intimacy, I can only see that growing. […] I’m not against people doing doing kind of what they need to do to get to a space where intimacy is not so threatening towards them again.

But after that, I think it’s really awesome to actually work on people’s ability to meet people in real life and form those connections. Because I was worried I would be sad if all of our intimacy went over to being a services based thing rather than an interpersonal thing. However, I can see totally how it has its place.

 

What type of intimicy are you paying for?

Hayley

Can I just ask one other question, I’m just, it’s where by the way that I like the other person talk so much the pockets I’m just so interested in what’s going on with your services. And is it just that dinner, dinner kind of date thing or to some women but then long, longer?

Garren

Yeah. I mean, I just helped a client book a 10 day cruise to Alaska with one of the guys So, I have a guy that just got back from a five day trip to Hawaii with a client. So, you know the difference between men and women, it seems like women like to book longer appointments, and go places and travel with people. And so yeah, I mean, it seems like a lot of the appointments are a lot longer and they don’t have to be extravagant. You know, a lot of times the clients will call and say, you know, what do I have to do with him on the date and I gotta try to remind them that this is all about them. A lot of times women are used to men paying for date and saying, meet me at eight o’clock. We’re going here. We’re going to this movie.

Hayley

Not in England Garrin. The English man! To try and get him to be that direct! I coach them to be like this.

Garren

So I have to remind them that it’s been making all the decisions and he’s there to accompany you but but you know the dates can be very extravagant or they can just be meet a lobby bar, have a drink, go from there go upstairs, you know, doesn’t have to be very extravagant.

Hayley

[…] I hope next time I’m in the States, I can come and meet you or one of your cowboys and see what that’s all about. I’m quite interested. And so if the women that listen to this are equally curious, how can they find out more?

Garren

Yeah, we have a website. We also have Twitter, we have a Facebook, all of our social media links are up top there.  […]

Hayley

I really just encourage women to basically shake that off. For any of my female listeners that curious about more about my online club as well. I’ve got an amazing community of women who are basically onboard to say, you know what, actually, I’m done with a fairy tale. I’m done, I’m over it. Teach me how I can actually meet more people and get better at connecting with people and embrace my sexuality and all those other good things.